In this episode of Learnings at Scale, Max sits down with Kylo Freeman, CEO and founder of For Them. For Them designs better chest binders for the trans and non-binary community, and its website fits customers with the right binder for their needs. But Kylo’s mission goes beyond their product. At For Them, Kylo and their team are working to build a supportive ecosystem around their customers. This episode explores Kylo’s unique approach to entrepreneurship, balancing a deep commitment to care and community with the demands of scaling a successful business.
Featured Chapter: Hacking Product Development
Developing a physical product is risky and expensive. Kylo tested every chest binder available on the market, devised a multi-point rating system, and asked prospective customers in their community to rate their current binder along that matrix. Kylo used that data to create a service that matched customers with an available binder that better suited their needs. Once they had a foothold in the market, Kylo pivoted to designing the product that wasn’t available: a chest binder comfortable, breathable, and safe enough to wear all day long. For Them’s journey from problem to product is a lesson in leveraging community engagement for market research and product development.
Full Episode
For Them’s business model builds intimacy at scale, and Kylo demonstrates how to balance creative vision and genuine care for your customer base with operational expertise. For Kylo, building a business is like building a world. In this episode, Kylo and Max discuss the importance of product safety, community cultivation, a balanced C-suite, and attention to the evolving needs of your customer base as your business scales.
Actionable Lessons:
- Solve your own problems: Identify a problem that resonates with you and that you’re passionate about solving.
- Engage the community around your product: Invest in deep customer research and use it to inform your product development, marketing, and community building strategies.
- Build a balanced team: Surround yourself with people who complement your strengths and can help you balance creative vision with operational expertise.
- Embrace growth chapters: Be prepared for shifts in your customer base and adapt your approach accordingly.
Episode Chapters:
- 00:00 From PwC to PreHype: The Path to Founding For Them
- 02:29 Finding the Right Problem and Ideation Phase
- 05:21 Validating the Idea and Early Customer Research
- 07:06 Hacking Product Development
- 18:18 Building and Scaling the Community
- 23:43 Balancing Creative Vision with an Operational Mindset
- 34:01 A Renaissance Human: How Kylo Diversified Their Skills
- 41:22 Crossing the Chasm and Navigating Growth Chapters
- 46:46 The Future of For Them
Quotes and Insights:
02:22 “Business building is just solving problems that really matter.” - Kylo Freeman
03:12 "Do you care about this problem? And do you want to work on this for eight years or more?" - Kylo Freeman
15:16 “Starting something that is so mission-driven and connected to my identity, there is a level of care here that is very extreme.” - Kylo Freeman
35:41 "I think the biggest question that a founder should have, especially around physical product, is what is that top limit?" - Kylo Freeman